Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:25:53 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Universals/Half-shafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Not that this may help much, but if you have one of Hall Panteras older 
catalogs, he has pictures of the spicer half shafts in them.  They look much 
more "Machined" than the stock half-shafts.  The stock U-joints are also 
larger than spicer units.  Big deal if you cant measure against anything, huh? 

U-joints have a tendance to "Click" when badly worn, although this may be 
difficult to hear over the Panteras loud exhaust.  There are small clips that 
hold the u-joints in the half -shaft that will loosen up and begin to rotate. 
This will cause the u-joint cap to be very shiney at the edges where the clip 
has scarred the surface. 

I installed brand new stock u-joints in my stock half shafts years ago. 
Actually, I should say I had them professionally installed and they told me 
that the u-joints didn't particularly "fit" the half-shafts very well.  They 
said that they ended up not installing as tightly as they could have.  But 
they said they thought they would be OK.  They were wrong. 

Exactly 18 miles later I experienced a bad vibration from the rear end.  I 
pulled over to investigate, expecting to find that I hadn't tightened up the 
Half-shaft bolts well enough.  I couldn't see any problems so I continued on. 
Two miles later I had to pull over again due to the seriousness of the 
vibration.  I still could see no problems. 

I was about 5 miles from my parents home and decided to limp it there.  I 
drove as slowly as possible and by the time I reached their house, the car was 
vibrating and macking so much noise from the rear end you'd of thought I'd had 
eaten 20 pounds of chili & beans for lunch. 

I just knew I had a half shaft problem but why couldn't I see it?  I finally 
just pushed the car forward very slowly and watched the axles spin around. 
Then I spotted it.  The u-joint had completely lost it's cap, clip, bearings 
and the end of the u-joint was showing itself to the world, peeking out 
through the half shaft!  The problem there was that the half-shafts themselves 
were worn out and should have been replaced.  The U-joint that failed was the 
left rear outer.  Can you imagine what would happen to your Panteras 
suspension components and interior panels if that u-joint lets go at even 50 
miles per hour?  Think of it as a basball bat attached to a ceiling fan 
spinning on high!  Would you like to grab the bat? 

I really recommend switching to the spicer half shafts and u-joints if your 
stock units are bad and need replacing.  I drive my car very hard and long 
distances also.  I can buy my spicer u-joints at any discount auto parts store 
for about $12 each (compared to $40 for stock units).  I have never done a 
thing to my spicer units except grease them in 30,000 plus miles. 


Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 03:25:02 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Universals/Half-shafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

That's a tough one. The stock half shafts were mostly painted a sort of flat 
silver and had non-greasable u-joints. Spicers out here in CAl are a gold-
alodine color and use Ford F-500 truck u joints. Note that there's really 
nothing wrong with the stock half-shafts; it's the stock u-joints that cause 
the problem. Rumor has it that they were fabricated of steel that was hardened 
all the way through the cross, which makes them very hard & long-wearing, and 
very brittle as well. No U-S-made replacements fit the stock half-shafts at 
that time. U.S-made u-joints are surface-hardened only, so they are ductile 
under the very hard outer surface the needle bearings ride on. This allows 
then to handle shock loads much better than the brittle stock joints. Now, 
there are US-made (I think) u-joints for stock half-shafts, so the question 
may no longer apply. J DeRyke 


Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:39:05 +0000
From: [email protected] (Tomas Gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: Re: Rear axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

The funny thing is that it's a 1 3/8" 12 tpi thread too. This leads me to 
believe it's a US made part. 

The left side axle with the left hand threads is metric 35 mm x1,5 mm.

Axles are marked D and S and it's is the only marking I can see.


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:31:52 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  fasteners,half-shaft
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

The Spicer halfshafts are custom-built for each vendor.  In fact, if you 
compare units from different vendors, they're often quite different from one 
another, some heavier than others.  Heavier can be good or bad, depending, I 
guess... 


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:48:53 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  fasteners,half-shaft
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I learn something every day about these beasts! The OEM bolts for the half-
shafts are in fact 7/16-20 SAE, p/n 50313002, 16ea, with an elastic stopnut 
and lockwasher. Spicer halfshafts seem to be mysterious: I was once told they 
are custom- built locally for Panteras from Ford F-500 power-takeoff 
driveshafts. They do use F-500 Ford truck u-joints (mine does anyway). You may 
find a local shop that does custom hard-chrome plating and could resize your 
OEM halfshaft yokes.  Your local Pantera parts supplier doesn't get much of a 
break on these things, so you might do well to check with him. But rotating u-
joint caps means your car is trying to scream, "HELP" to you. J DeRyke 


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:09:21 +0000
From: "Ted A. Mitchell" {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: fasteners,half-shaft
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Any driveshaft rebuilder can make these half-shafts using standard Spicer 
parts (they even use the newer "blue teflon" coating on the splines so they 
move in and out easier.  Just take your old one to them (marking where there 
is a clearance problem with the exhaust pipes.  Most "Driveline Specialists" 
(I think the name is right), a franchise type rebuilder, in California are 
familiar with the specs and can make you a set without bothering with your old 
ones.  I had mine built by them in San Francisco many years ago. 


Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:00:07 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: CV Joints
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

One quick thought:  when building these CV jointed-driveshafts with only 32mm 
of plunge total, have you given any consideration as to how you're actually 
going to physically mount them on the car? 

The reason I ask is, on my Pantera anyway, the mounting bolts for the 
driveshafts point towards the center of the driveshaft; i.e. they're run 
through the sideplates on the gearbox pointing towards the wheel, and on the 
hub side they point towards the gearbox.  You have to compress the driveshaft 
as much as it will go (close to an inch and a half) to get the ends over the 
bolts (which act like studs), then extend it again. 

I'd hate to see you construct driveshafts that you then can't mount on the car 
without first taking the whole damn suspension apart! :}) 


Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:00:07 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: CV-Jointed Driveshafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

What follows is e-mails that George Gordon-Smith in England sent to Gary
([email protected]) in reference to CV-jointed driveshafts.  I had asked George
for an update to post to The List.  My comments follow.
---------

From: George Gordon-Smith {[email protected]}
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CV Joints
Date: 19 December 1997 14:49

Dear Gary,

I have left my last of yesterday to you on this sheet, as Mike was asking
where I was at, and I had forgotten to copy him in.  So it is there again
for his benefit. What a lazy fellow I am becoming!

Prices per side are as follows:-

Barshaft  x1  L84.00
CV Joint x2  L29.00 each
CV Boot x2  L11.20 each
Adaptor Plate   x2  L70.00 each
Grease  x1  L10.00
M10 bolts x12  FOC
7/16 bolts x8  FOC

Total per side L310.40

Car Set Total L620.80 - plus tax (which you wouldn't have to pay)

Finish is in black powder coating.

The really expensive bits are the adaptor plates, which they get made ex 
house. 

I should stress that this is the price for the Mangusta. I do not know how 
Pantera requirements would be different. Bear in mind also that this is for a 
one-off set. If you could agree a spec, I have no doubt that the price would 
fall per item on a limited production run. 

Let me know if you want an assembly drawing. By the way, GKN Driveline do not 
have email. They do have a sister company in the U.S., but I don't think they 
do motorsport work there. 

Now follows yeaterday's letter.

Sorry to have taken so long to reply to yours of 26th November.

Yes, I was asking for details of the plunge required for a standard Mangusta, 
because I could not believe the measurements I took on my own. Admittedly, my 
car has been substantially lowered, but I could not obtain much more than 2 mm 
of plunge from static ride to wheels off, although there is plenty of movement 
on the suspension. This, I suspect is because the principal joint angle is 
from front to rear, as my shafts run almost horizontally from Transaxle to 
wheel. 

Anyway, I am now having the shafts made up. If you will advise me of your fax 
number, I will be pleased to send you an assembly drawing from GKN Driveline, 
which they are happy to release for publication. They have yet to quote me for 
the work, but I will advise the cost in due course. 

The joint they are using will have no more than 16mm of plunge, giving a total 
of 32mm for each shaft. They do have another one which will more than double 
that amount of plunge without any loss of strength, but its more expensive. A 
problem is that they have to make adaptor plates up, to convert from the 4 
bolt flange on my car to the 6 bolt arrangement of the C.V. joint. These 
adaptors also have to accommodate the large nut on the end of the stub axle, 
which protrudes some 12.5 mm inboard of the input flange at the wheel end. 

My shafts, when complete, will be guaranteed as good for up to 2,400 lbs ft of 
torque, but these guys will make anything at all, even with space age 
materials, as they currently do for Formula 1 and Indy cars. 

GKN Driveline will be happy to meet any requirements you may have for shaft 
manufacture. They are pretty scathing about the use of Hookes Joints,  (known 
as U-joints in the U.S.) which I understand are still popular in the U.S., 
even as a modification. These guys are happy to produce one off items, or will 
do small or limited production runs. They will produce drawings and submit 
them for approval prior to manufacture, so they should not be a problem to 
deal with at long distance. They are also quite charming and helpful people to 
deal with. 

Curiously, I have not enquired whether they have email, but they may be 
contacted by telephone or fax. Please advise and I will be very happy to pass 
on all their info. 

Please let me have your opinion of the above, when you find the time. If we do 
not contact beforehand,  a peaceful and happy Christmas to you and yours. 

Cheers,

George Gordon-Smith

--------
My thoughts:

Nice thing about living in England is that you're at most a few hours drive 
from virtually every Formula One and IndyCar component constructor in the 
country, and can get all sorts of cool custom stuff whipped right out for ya. 
(George's Mangusta currently wears March Indycar brakes, for example.) 

Bummer is, things are wicked expensive.  L620.80 is about $900, plus he has to 
pay 17% tax; George will wind up paying over $1000 for his custom driveshafts! 

I am deeply suspicious about running driveshafts which have only 32mm of
plunge.  He says he's done his measurements, but still.... 

I am assured when the project is complete, a full tech article along with the 
aforementioned drawings will appear for the POCA newsletter.  Presumably the 
same basic technology could be adapted for Pantera use as well. 


Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:43:14 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Spicer half shafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Ok, I learned my car has Spicer half shafts....
}
}What's that mean ?
}
}(Tapered bearings ? etc...)

Nothing more that what it seems.  Your stock DRIVESHAFTS have been replaced 
with heavy-duty units made by Spicer.  Generally a wonderful, mo-betta thing.  
It's a straight bolt-in swap, and has no bearing (ouch) on what lives inside 
your hub carriers. :}) 


Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:49:52 +0000
From: Nobbie Kim {[email protected]}
Subject: RE: Spicer half shafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Ok, I learned my car has Spicer half shafts....

Dem Spicer halfshafts be good. Because the transaxle is between the rear 
tires, you can't have a solid rear axle. Instead, you have half-shafts that 
while adequate for stock Panteras, couldn't handle the extra power and larger 
rear tires we "enthusiasts" perfer. Spicer is a company that makes half shafts 
that are beefier. They're a good thing. 

As far as tapered bearings go, I believe they reduce "play" in the wheels? 
Jack/Mike? anything to add? 

P.S. Am really selling the Pantera. ASking $29,000 but will give a great deal 
to fellow netterz/POCA/PI members. Spread the word. I need the money to buy 
the big-assed house with a ten car garage! Then I can rebuild my collection. 
Also offering the 96 Harley Fat Boy for $19,000. 


Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 02:23:02 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Spicer half shafts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

What it means is, replacement u-joints are about $17 apiece for Ford truck 
units instead of (3x) for replacement-stock ones. Stock joints used to cost up 
to $75 each, so Spicers were quite valuable, but the 'stock-replacement' units 
someone found to fit stock halfshafts a few years ago, diluted that a bit. J 


Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:56:20 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

KD: I've TIG-welded maybe 50 stub axles for club members with nickel hard-face 
alloy, then ground them down to 0.0005" LARGER than stock dia. The Pantera 
wheel bearings require that size interference press fit to work properly and 
the factory simply made the axles too small. I had one total axle failure 
(broke in two). Another guy in Nor-Cal had his rewelded, then hard-chromed & 
finish ground to a press fit. Flame spraying would also work. Note that if you 
EVER decide to run tapered roller rear bearings, most of the shops that offer 
this will not do the conversion if the axles are not pristine-stock. Their 
argument is they are then guaranteeing somebody else's weld job as well as the 
rest of the assembly, so you will need new axles anyway (or do the machine 
work yourself). J DeRyke 


Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:46:11 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Distortion from welding isn't much of a problem since the working shaft length 
is only about 7" and the diameter is 1-1/2 inches. I specified the hard-face 
so we wound up with a hard surface for the inner race to set on, with a 
ductile core to take care of stresses from mucho power and hi-speed cornering 
loads. You could simply weld up the bad spots with good steel and single-point 
it back down to 1.5750" (stock size is 1.5745"). You absolutely need a 
micrometer that measures tenths to do good bearing fits. Mic' a couple of 
replacement bearing inner diameters and add 0.0005"  to 0.0008" interference 
for the proper press fit. A soft weld will not react well to a press fit like 
this, often galling during the press phase. An alternative is to heat the 
bearing to no more than 200 degrees F and freeze the axle, but you gotta have 
stuff all jigged up or you lose the temp differential quick. You must be a new 
kid or not a POCA member, 'cause I wrote a 2-pg  description on this a few 
years back for the newsletter (shameless plug for membership). It's in the 
archives someplace- I'll see if I can find it. Oh, and my C.B handle is 
"chain-drive", kneedragger... J DeRyke 



Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 08:07:22 +0000
From: "Franck, Donald J" {[email protected]}
Subject: Rear Wheel Bearings
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

In looking at the interchange list I see that the rear bearings are listed
as  6308 and 6208 Single Row Double Sealed.

If I go to a bearing shop is this all the info I need?


Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 02:17:45 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Rear Wheel Bearings
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

100% of the bearings that fit a Pantera's rear carrier & axles have 6308 &
6208 in their p/n somewhere. The other letters & numbers signify dust seals,
hermetic sealks, no seals, double-row ball bearings etc. Ask the bearing guy
what he recommends- he works with them 40 hrs a week. And bring a stub axle in
with you- I've seen brand new bearings drop onto a Pantera axle, when they
should be a press fit. J DeRyke


Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:58:04 +0000
From: [email protected] (Shane F. Ingate)
Subject: Re: Complete rear-end R&R in 1 day
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} Hey Shane! How come you didn't just go with PPC's tapered
} bearing kit? Guaranteed for life!

As Mr. Spock would say, its most logical.  The previous bearings and axle
survived 26 years and 40,000 miles.  I dont drive when it rains, use
synthetic grease and am most attentive about cleaning the car, so
I would expect that the (new) stock bearings will last at least 10 years.
In that time, I hope to move to monster brakes with modified
uprights etc, which will likley undo all the effort and EXPENSE of
installing roller bearings at this time.

To completely R&R both sides, the cost was (incl tax):
bearings        $115
bushings        $ 86
paint           $  5
lunch           $ 40 (for the troops)
axle            $100
----
Total           $346

My car is not the prettiest Pantera, but it is a driver, a racecar hack
that is very slowly being developed.  I'd rather put my pennies and
labour on parts that will make an immediate difference (like brakes)
rather than worry about having to do the same job again in 10-20 years.

IMHO, unless you spend more then 50 hours on the track every year
(like you do Kirby) and have the huge bucks (several thousands of
dollars) required to build the ultimate rear-end
brake/suspension/alloy-upright combo, I would suggest sticking
with stock bearings.  Besides, now that I have seen the operation
done, I can easily do it myself (albeit taking much longer).


Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:54:49 +0000
From: [email protected] (Tomas Gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: Re: GTS inner bearing (Was Complete rear-end R&R in 1 day)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Why not use what the factory refers to as the "GTS" inner bearing as the
inner is the one that gives the most trouble. This is a double row bearing,
rather than the stock single row bearing, and far stronger. Simply have a
machine shop shorten your bearing spacer by 0.475" and re-assemble as usual.
The part # for this bearing is SKF 5208-2RS.

Why is the inner bearing more of a concern? Does it generally fail more often
than the outer?


Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:55:24 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Mangusta Vibration SOLVED! :})
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

You may remember that last fall we were trying to help George
Gordon-Smith in England sort out a violent vibration problem at the rear
of his Mangusta.  People were thinking it might be a bad clutch, or a
worn pilot bearing, or a fragged ZF, but many people pointed to the
driveshafts as the possible culprits.  George had modified his motor
mounts to raise the engine slightly (for increased ground clearance,
necessary on his heavily-crowned rural roads), and this simply
aggravated the situation.  I inspected them myself and discovered that
they were not properly aligned due to a manufacturing defect (they were
apparently custom-made in the UK); the crosses were not 90 or 180
degrees apart, but rather about 110 degrees.

George's ultimate solution (well, perhaps I should say ULTIMATE!) was to
go to a specialty contractor who builds CV-jointed driveshafts for the
major UK Formula One teams (Williams, McLaren, etc.) and have a set of
custom Mangusta driveshafts cooked up, with CV joints instead of
U-joints.  They cost him an arm and a leg as you might imagine (about
$1200 if I recall), but here's what he has to say about them:

}}}Well, Mike despite all the delay with the new shafts and their not being 
protected from rust - twice, I have to say that the car is transformed -it 
goes like a bloody snake. Absolutely NO vibration of any kind, so it was the 
shafts near to the point of lockup that was causing the problem, the previous 
problem being due to their faulty manufacture, with the yokes slighly 
misaligned. 

I took Charlotte [NOTE:  his 11-year old daughter...] out for a spin in a wet 
snowstorm on Monday evening and we had lots of fun - I really had forgotten 
how good that car is to drive. Mallock's setup is also very good indeed.  [He 
had the suspension dialed in by a local race shop.] There is almost no bump-
steer and the car appears to handle much better, although I couldn't push it 
on really wet tarmac, poor visibility and Charlotte riding shotgun. 

I remember that Mallock's said they could improve the car further by using 
better rose joints with finer threads. I will look at that for next Winter, as 
the bloody house is taking all my money, and more these days. 

}}}So there you go, problem solved!  Also, FWIW, George's Mangusta is
probably the fastest DeTomaso (particularly in terms of cornering) I've
ever personally been in.  It had been highly developed and has been a
competitive club race car (UK equivilant to the SCCA) for several years
before he bought it and converted it back to street spec.  It's got 16"
wheels and monster tires, the rear four points of a six-point cage (the
forward portion he leaves out for street duty, the remainder is a roll
bar that has tubes that tie into the rear of the chassis), the
suspension is all rose-jointed (a.k.a heim joints) which is Mangusta
standard, it's got uprated Koni shocks and springs, and the stock brakes
replaced with a complete set from a March Indycar!  The Euro-spec 289
has a full stainless steel 180 degree GT-40 style exhaust, and the car
simply GOES LIKE HELL!

Anything you've read about Mangustas being lethal handlers might well be
true for individual cars (he has some experience with the other dozen or
so stock Mangustas in the UK and reports that their handling varies
wildly from decent to bloody awful), but his particular car will
undoubtedly show its taillights to most of your Panteras, any day of the
week!

Thanks again to all who provided help in diagnosing the problem!


Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:42:51 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: U-joints needed
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I looked at the Pantera Parts Connection website.  Part number for the
U-joint is 01214B.  Factory u-joints cost $95.58 (OUCH!), but
aftermarket u-joints are listed for $40.00.  I think they're on sale
however, and are also available from other vendors.


Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:20:31 +0000
From: David Nunn {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: U-joints needed
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Pantera U-joints w/zerks are available from Powertrain Industries in SoCal
(714) 255-7030 for $35.00 ea. approx. These fit the original DeTomaso
half-shafts ONLY (not Spicers). I believe that these U-joints are originally
for a 70's Toyota 2WD truck driveshaft. Powertrain found that this U-joint
was a few "thou" too big in length, but EXACTLY the same yolk diameter, so
they supply them with slightly thinner retaining clips (clever). They are
FAR superior to the factory U-joints and WAY cheaper.  There is no need for
shims, sleeves, new half-shafts or hundred dollar U-joints. The only
drawback is that they say "made in Japan" on them !


Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:09:58 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Fw: Rear Suspension Questions
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{ 1.  I have removed the halfshafts and found one of the shafts has the yokes
in the same angular orientation the other is 90 degrees rotated- which one is
right?  I suspect the 90 degree is wrong as it has a different u-joint (with
grease fitting orange spacer rings).
} 2.  I am contemplating changing the U-joints.  They do not exhibit any play
but they appear original (no grease fitting).  How well do the original
greased for life joints stand-up?
} 3.  The half shafts are relatively tight also, but with my hand over the
splined joint I can feel a very small angular movement (splines look in good
shape no signs of wear).  Is there a good test for checking half shaft play?
is there a spec?
} 4.  I am also changing all "A"- arm and shock bushings to polyurethane. I am
thinking of going with the no shell type just to gain more polyurethane for a
little softer ride, is it worth the trouble of removing the shells or are the
benefits minimal?
}}
1. 90 degrees is factory-correct. Unscrew the slipjoint connection and pull
the halves apart, then reassemble correctly & retighten the connector. When
reattaching to the trans, put the 'little' end of the halfshafts inboard
(opposite of the factory) for a little more exhaust pipe clearance- important
on aftermarket or GTS exhausts.
2. Factory u-joints have a reputation for catastrophic failure which can and
has shattered trans cases. Look for shiny rings in the yoke ends where the
snap-rings are rotating. IF they begin to rotate, you have a potential failure
very $oon.
3. A little spline play is normal- just keep them greased well.
4. Depends entirely on which bushings you get- some are designed to ride in
the old shells and some directly in the a-arms. There is no difference in ride
comfort- but if you also urethane the shock bushings, you'll see a large
deterioration in ride comfort. I kept rubber at this point & urethane in a-
arms and swaybars. Some say the interior of the shells aren't really round so
you get a sloppy fit with replacement bushes. It is a huge amount of trouble
to remove the shells but worth it in my opinion.
J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:31:27 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Two More Questions
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}A couple more quick questions.  My Pantera has Spicer halfshafts.  Is it okay 
}to flip them end for end so that the smaller diameter part is under the 
}tailpipes?  This would give more room for larger exhaust pipes. 

}}}Not only is this acceptable, it's actually a very GOOD idea for the
}}}reasons you mentioned.  Go for it!


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:49:11 +0000
From: Kirby Schrader {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Two More Questions
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}A couple more quick questions.  My Pantera has Spicer halfshafts.  Is it
}okay to flip them end for end so that the smaller diameter part is under
}the tailpipes?  This would give more room for larger exhaust pipes.

I've got Spicers and that's the way they've been mounted for years now. I see 
no problem. 


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:43:08 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Two More Questions
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{I was thinking about doing this flip also, and there should be no  problem 
  with doing so.  The only negative thing I heard anyone say was the small 
  amount of additional un-sprung weight.  }} 

Quite true, there is a bit more in this configuration. But on my car with the
stock 2-1/4" GTS exhaust pipes, there is actual contact between the pipes and
my half-shafts at full-droop. I chose the lesser of two evils. It's also a bit
less convenient greasing the splines with the fittings inside the fender
wells. J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:06:01 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{I dont know about the other vendors, but Hall sells 'em (outboard stub
  axles) for $350 each (ouch!).}}

Gary's stub axles are billet-made from an 8" dia chunk of heat-treated 4130
steel and are strong enough to withstand pro racing on slicks, in contrast to
stock outboard stub axles that are:

-1- made of Italian coat-hanger steel that will probably break the flange off 
    if you shove too much horsepower thru them, cornering with sticky tires. 

-2- undersized from the Factory thus almost guaranteeing you will lose an axle 
    (and a bearing set) from bearing-to-axle looseness. You must decide if you 
    need the security that billet axles give more than the bucks. 


Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:25:47 +0000
From: David Doddek {[email protected]}
Subject: tapered rear wheel bearings
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Has any one had trouble with the PPC tapered wheel bearing conversion.  I
seem to be having problems whith them getting water inside and rusting the
bearings.  Had the right one rebuilt in March and had to send it in again
this week.  The only time I drove it in the rain was coming back from
Vegas.  I have been told that getting too close to the seal with a pressure
washer will force water in the bearing, but I have never done this.  Any
one else have problems here??


Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:42:41 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  tapered rear wheel bearings
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{Has any one had trouble with the PPC tapered wheel bearing conversion.  I
  seem to be having problems whith them getting water inside and rusting the 
  bearings. }} 

What is the p/n of the seals in question and how are they attached to the
carrier? Maybe the seals you have are really rated as "dust covers" rather
than waterproof seals? THere's darn little room in there for good seals. J
DeRyke


Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:55:30 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{To those I may have left up-in-the-air, Jack DeRyke has "fresh-
   reconditioned" (hard steel sprayed and re-ground) axles.  But he needs your 
   old ones as cores.}} 

Thanks, Stevo, but I never tried metal-spray. The few (25 or so) axles I've
done were hand-TIG-welded with nickel hardfacing material, then reground. But
I only did it as a convenience for mostly local guys that got themselves in a
time-bind. The cores are for the next guy... J DeRyke


Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 01:04:41 +0000
From: David Doddek {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Try an electric motor repair shop for metal spray.  They use this technique
to repair the shafts of large motors when a bearing locks up and spins on
the shaft.  That is how I got mine repaired.


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:39:29 +0000
From: [email protected] (Tomas Gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: Rear axle bearing replacement
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I put in double row outer bearings this winter. I felt it unnecessary to
convert the inner bearings as they are not heavily loaded. The main reason
was that I wanted to increase side load capacity, not radial capacity. Not
all double row bearings have a better side load capacity than single row
bearings. These have.

www.fmcc.se/guson/inside shows the insides of a bearing.

www.fmcc.se/guson/bearing shows the original bearing and spacer to the left
and the new pieces to the right. In the middle is an adapter that fits in the
upright as the new bearing is only 72 mm in outside diameter.

www.fmcc.se/guson/retainer is the new retainer that keeps the adapter and
bearing from coming out of the upright.

No machining of the upright was made at all. The bearing is identical in
dimensions to what is used as front wheel bearings on VW Golf (Rabbit in the
US). Mine came from a bearing supplier though.


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:39:02 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Rear axle bearing replacement
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{One more question,  I have also been looking at needle bearings and roller 
  thrust bearings for the lower shaft.  Is this worth doing, benefits vs cost 
  and BS.}} 

This was a tech question asked on the PI forum a couple o' years back. I said
it's a waste of time due to the very small angle the bearings would go through
as the a-arm moves. This small angle would tend to skid the needles, not turn
them, resulting in them pounding recesses in the shaft that ultimately act
like detents. Ever ridden a motorcycle with bad headstock bearings? Anyway,
the only disagreement I got was from Ron Siple in NV who is (or was) a
supplier of tricky devices for Panteras. Ron said that E-type Jags have them
stock in this position and he thought it was a good idea. Have not talked to
anyone who actually has a Pantera with this mod installed. Keep in mind, e-
types were not paragons of good design or reliability re the rear suspension
IMHO.... J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:53:39 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Ujoints
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Can anyone tell me ford part number to replace the stock universal
}joints?

}}}Well, according to the Ford pats book, it's D36Y 4635-A (Joint Kit, rear
}}}axle universal.)

But you're wasting your time looking for that, since it's been obsolete from
Ford for 20 years or so!  The u-joints are a European/Japanese size.  You can
spend a full day rooting through boxes at Kragens and hopefully find an Acura
U-joint that will fit, or suck it up and buy a proper one from the vendors for
$40 or so!


Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:48:18 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Axles
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} And what is big bucks for the axle?

{{I dont know about the other vendors, but Hall sells 'em for $350 each 
  (ouch!).  But there is a trick.  I bought mine used for $100 from a guy who 
  upgraded to roller bearings (which require new axles). If you can find 
  someone who is doing the same, and the axles are in good shape, then thats 
  the ticket.  Maybe you should come to the SDP Swap Meet in July? Shane }} 

-----------reply-------

I forgot which member Scott is responding to and is in need of axles, but if
you're (he is) interested I have a pair of used ones for sale.  I Upgraded to
the Tapered Roller Bearing Settup from Pantera Performance some time ago.  My
old axles are still in storage and are available for $80 + S/H  I never had a
problem with them, and only upgraded because I planned to "Track" the car.

I am planning to re-post a list of my remaining parts, with photos, onto my
web-site.  It may take a little while, but in the mean time, if you want a
photo just email me, they are already on file.