Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:38:43 +0000
From: Dennis Antenucci {[email protected]}
Subject: The Poor-boy Slant Radiator
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

If you've had your car for awhile you've probably been plaqued by some wiring 
and fuse problems connected with the front radiator cooling fans.  Before you 
high rollers go out and spend your hard hearned dollars on one of those big 
buck aluminum lay down radiators consider the foregoing Charlie Falcon poor-
boy do-it-yourself tip. 

For you speed junkies...last year when I was preparing my car for Silver 
State, Junior Wilson told me about the problems he had at high speeds on the 
course (above 160 mph) with the Pantera's front cooling fans and suggested I 
pull them prior to the race.  What he discovered was the fans flexed at high 
speed...RIGHT INTO THE RADIATOR! (pay attention Brock, Curt, etc)...so I 
started going through old POCA & PI issues this afternoon to share an old 
story with you all - that I found from a PI Quarterly (Summer '92) - thanks 
David & Linda. 

It is a proven fact that pulling air in is up to 40% more efficient then 
pushing air through a radiator. Back in '92, Charlie Falcone ran a great do-
it-yourself tech story in PI on how-to slant your radiator forward and install 
HV "sucker" fans on the "backside" of the radiator to pull air through the 
radiator instead of trying to push air through...Made even more difficult with 
some of the large after-market radiators. Here's Charlie's story and while I 
can't reproduce the sketches here - if your seriously interested and don't 
have that PI story - or can't get it from a local bud - contact me with a 
snail address and I'll send you a photo copy in the mail. 

First of all, you have to pick up a few items from your local hardware store. 
Here is a list (sorry Anders I don't have metric conversions! :-]) 

HARDWARE STORE LIST:

1 PIECE OF 1" X 1/8" X 16" STEEL STRAP
1 PIECE OF 2 1/2" X 1 1/16" STEEL STRAP...OR SHEET METAL
2 EACH 5/16" X 1 1/4" BOLTS
10 EACH 3/4" SHEET METAL SCREWS
1 EACH 2" X 30" SHEET METAL STRIP

AUTO PARTS STORE LIST:

2 EACH HADEN COOLING FANS (PART#3640) - 1050 CFM FANS...OR BETTER
2 EACH RAIATOR HOSES
8 EACH NEW HOSE CLAMPS

Okay, let's get started. First, draining the radiator. Disconnect the hoses, 
unplug the temp sensors, remove the mount bolts at each side of the radiator. 
Remove the existing stock fans and do with them what you will...:-] 

Take the radiator to your local radiator shop and have them next remove the 
hose as per diagram #1 to clear the new fans. This costs about $25 (in '92!). 
Then while the radiator is out you might want to clean the compartment of 
rust, scale etc. 

The next step is to take the 1" strap and cut it into two 6 & 1/2" long pieces 
and drill a 5/16" hole in each end. Then take the 2 & 1/2" strip and cut it in 
half and bend it in a vice as per diagram #2. This piece fits on the cross 
member above the stock mounts. This can be welded or screwed on with sheet 
metal screws if a welder is not handy. 

According to diagram #3, cut a 5/8" hole in this piece and install the stock 
grommets. Be sure to line up the new mount holes with the old holes. Once this 
is done, set the radiator to make sure the pins slip into the holes. If you 
are not quite on, remove the grommets and oblong the hole a little and put the 
grommets back and try it again until it fits. But I have confidence it will be 
right the first time. Remove the radiator. 

Next put the fans together and set them on the radiator. Make sure that the 
fan closest to the hose necks clears enough to install the hoses. Attach the 
fans to the radiator. 

Before you put the radiator in the car, unfasten the wire loom and move it to 
the bottom of the grille and quick tie it off to keep the wires from being 
damaged by the radiator. Install the 1" straps to the radiator to keep it snug 
but not tight because you have to adjust them when you put the radiator back 
in. Set in the radiator, slant it forward and bolt up the 1" strap to the 
stock mounts. The radiator should clear the stock fan brackets on the front 
side by 1/4" - 1/2".  then tighten bolts. 

Connect the wires up in the same way you would a stock fan and temp sender. 
Cut the radiator hoses to fit on the pipes and radiator. Double clamp both 
ends. Fill the cooling system and bleed it off - thoroughly. You're all done 
except for one thing - stall the 2" x 30" sheet metal piece between the 
radiator and the front body panel on top to close off the gap. That's it - 
your done and it really isn't as hard as it sounds. On a hot 90F degree day my 
car doesn't ever get over 220F degrees in heavy stop-n-go traffic now and 
averages 190F degrees, also on the same hot 90F day. 

Charlie, goes on to say he's done this on many cars. He also suggests if you 
think you can't handle it to give the instructions to your mechanic or 
radiator shop. 

You've just saved approximately $600-700 bucks! Bring it to Curt's next Poker 
Night - and bring the beer too! :-] Mad Dog, IRA 


Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:31:48 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Dead car
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}It turned out to be the amp gauge.  Pantera's send current from the battery 
}through the amp gauge, and if it burns out you get no power while the battery, 
}etc. still checks out.  Luckily a Mangusta owner was on the cruise and he used 
}a piece of stereo speaker wire to connect the gauge's posts.  It started and 
}ran great!  Give it a try. 

Yet another reason to permanently install a metal shunt between the two 
posts on the amp gauge.  If the gauge dies, current continues to flow; 
otherwise you're SOL. 

Also, I don't have my reference materials handy, but as I recall early and 
late Panteras were wired differently in one important regard.  Early cars only 
had one cable running from the positive terminal of the battery back to the 
starter solonid; from there a mongo wire ran back forward to the ammeter, and 
then the juice powered the rest of the car. 

On late cars, there's actually a mongo wire attached to the positive battery 
lead; this wire then travels a much shorter path to the ammeter. 

Point being, you might want to find the end of this wire (you've got an L-
model with the latter scheme, right?) and make sure it's gettin' juice.  If 
you have a later-scheme car, you could follow Roger's advice and determine 
that there's power at your starter solonid, while overlooking the fact that 
your mongo wire has become disconnected from the positive lead somehow. 

P.S.  For overseas readers, 'Mongo' is a descriptive term which means 'very 
big and hulky.'  It stems from the name of a character in the Mel Brooks 
comedy, 'Blazing Saddles.'  There was a big gorilla of a guy in that film who 
would introduce himself by saying, "Me Mongo!  Mongo Hungry!" and then bash 
people's heads in, etc. 

On a Pantera, the aforementioned mongo wire is considerably larger in diameter 
than a pencil. 


Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:01:03 +0000
From: Andy Poling {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: The Poor-boy Slant Radiator
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} For you speed junkies...last year when I was preparing my car for Silver
} State, Junior Wilson told me about the problems he had at high speeds on
} the course (above 160 mph) with the Pantera's front cooling fans and
} suggested I pull them prior to the race.  What he discovered was the fans
} flexed at high speed...RIGHT INTO THE RADIATOR!

Ack!  Was Junior saying that they were chewing at the radiator (definitely 
bad)?  Or did they hit the fins and stopp spinning (also bad, if the fan 
thermostat is trying to run them)? 

This concerns me because when I was at Pocono last year, my fans were turning 
on at the end of the half-hour sessions.  The fan thermostat thought the 
radiator was hot so it ran the fan(s), but I'll bet they were doing little 
good while I was at speed... and might have actually been hurting the natural 
airflow through the radiator (at high speeds).  I was hitting about 140 or so 
on the back straight last year, and I 'spect to be going a bit faster this 
year, so I'll be approaching these speeds where exotic aerodynamic things like 
these become real issues. 

I'm thinking maybe a fan cutoff switch would be a smart thing to have for 
track play.  As long as I don't forget to turn them back on when I return to 
the pits (duh).  I wonder if they could still do damage to the radiator if 
they were just pinwheeling.  Hmm... maybe an electric brake (short the fan 
leads when disconnected) would help. 

Also, I wonder if the aftermarket radiators are thicker than stock... I've 
never compared mine to a stock radiator to see.  If they are, this lay-down 
procedure might get more complicated with an aftermarket radiator. 


Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:06:08 +0000
From: Frank Zambini {[email protected]}
Subject: Race Safety (tire blow-outs)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

As Mad Dog mentioned the other day the front cooling fans are a safety hazard 
at high speeds and I'd also add don't work as effectively as the rear pusher 
fans at slow or fast speeds. Cap'n Mike's suggestion to use the duel Flex-a-
lite fans with shroud is an excellent idea because you don't have to modify 
your existing stock system or lay your stock radiator down if your just 
planning to go fast. 


Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:08:39 +0000
From: [email protected] (Brent  Perry)
Subject: Re: Cooling system
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} Brent; I am curious about the 1 5/8" water tube replacements that you
} mention. Are these the tubes under the car and if so, what did you have to
} do to upgrade from 1 3/8" to 1 5/8" ? Did you use stainless steel or
} aluminum tubing ?

The waterpipe supports w/grommets under the car look like they would
handle 1.500 od pipe stock from the factory.  I had to grind another 1/8
to 3/16 to get the 1 5/8" to clear.  I used some of Hall's urethane
grommets and lubed them up using antifreeze to get them to slip over the
painted COPPER tubing (1.5" nom class "M") then worked them into place.
Gates makes 1-5/8 green stripe hose ($12-15 per FOOT) which I used to
Make all the connections with screw clamps.  All of the bends can be
made using 1-1/2" nom copper fittings, you'll want to find and special
order LR (long radius) fittings for the 90 deg ell's($15.00 each) but
the regular 45 deg ell's are readily available.  A hack saw with a mitre
box was used for cutting and leaves a smoother ID than a tubing cutter.
Some good silver solder flux and a torch and your ready for trial
fitting to get EXACTLY what you want.  You can fab ALL of the tubing
used to route water with 1-5/8 tubing including the top pipe and the
suction side of the waterpump.  A simple thermostat housing change and
an 1-1/2 gates 90 rubber hose gets you to the fill tank.  One of the
long pipes under the car will have to be cut to get it out without
pulling the engine, but look's fine when replaced with two pieces.
If I had it to do over (and had the ability to weld stainless) I would
look into some stainless tubing of the same diameter (1.625" od- 1.500"
ID) that is used in the food industry.  They too have preformed ell's
but instead of slip joining like copper they are butt welded.  Someday I
may have the in's and out's opened up on the fill tank, but so far
everthing has worked well.


Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:07:32 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Re: Cooling system
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Dick, that's exactly why you DON'T want the central tubes to be aluminum.
Stainless steel is a crummy conductor of heat, and there's an ungodly amount
coming out of the gearshift boot area just from the 'muffler-moly' stock water
tubes. The amount of cooling you'd get with aluminum is minimal and I'll take
the 4-lb weight hit for SS and a little creature-comfort in the cockpit. J
DeRyke


Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:06:10 +0000
From: Dick Drenske {[email protected]}
Subject: Fwd: Re: Cooling system
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I replaced all the water tubes on my cars with welded stainless like you =
discussed. I also make custom stainless tanks longer than normal to get =
rid of the offset pipe again this works well and looks great.I was =
concerned about using light wall aluminum under the car where it would be =
subject to damage. Although I still may try it on the race car. Aluminum =
radiates the heat a lot better than steel or stainless


} Brent; I am curious about the 1 5/8" water tube replacements that you
} mention. Are these the tubes under the car and if so, what did you have to
} do to upgrade from 1 3/8" to 1 5/8" ? Did you use stainless steel or
} aluminum tubing ?

The waterpipe supports w/grommets under the car look like they would
handle 1.500 od pipe stock from the factory.  I had to grind another 1/8
to 3/16 to get the 1 5/8" to clear.  I used some of Hall's urethane
grommets and lubed them up using antifreeze to get them to slip over the
painted COPPER tubing (1.5" nom class "M") then worked them into place.

Gates makes 1-5/8 green stripe hose ($12-15 per FOOT) which I used to
Make all the connections with screw clamps.  All of the bends can be
made using 1-1/2" nom copper fittings, you'll want to find and special
order LR (long radius) fittings for the 90 deg ell's($15.00 each) but
the regular 45 deg ell's are readily available.  A hack saw with a mitre
box was used for cutting and leaves a smoother ID than a tubing cutter.

Some good silver solder flux and a torch and your ready for trial
fitting to get EXACTLY what you want.  You can fab ALL of the tubing
used to route water with 1-5/8 tubing including the top pipe and the
suction side of the waterpump.  A simple thermostat housing change and
an 1-1/2 gates 90 rubber hose gets you to the fill tank.  One of the
long pipes under the car will have to be cut to get it out without
pulling the engine, but look's fine when replaced with two pieces.
If I had it to do over (and had the ability to weld stainless) I would
look into some stainless tubing of the same diameter (1.625" od- 1.500"
ID) that is used in the food industry.  They too have preformed ell's
but instead of slip joining like copper they are butt welded.  Someday I
may have the in's and out's opened up on the fill tank, but so far
everthing has worked well.


Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 02:39:22 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Pressure Cap
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Unbolt the tank and take it to a local radiator shop. They will desolder the 
Italian filler neck and solder on a US-made one that accepts Stant (or other 
US made) rad caps without leaking. Cost= maybe $25. J DeRyke 


Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:30:47 +0000
From: [email protected] (Richard Barkley)
Subject: Cooling Upgrade Installation and Tests
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

On 3/23/98 I posted "Radiators, Fans, and water pipes" asking for advice on
replacing my blown radiator and describing some options I was considering.
This post describes what I did and some initial test results that indicate
it really works great.

SUMMARY:
The radiator needed recoring after all. My local radiator shop has
worked on Panteras and suggested a 5 row louvered (little louvers on the
fins) that they said was used by local racers. They split the right tank in
two so it's two pass: bottom in/top out. I decided to go with the
Flex-A-Lite "Black Magic." It has 2800 cfm rating at 13.9 amps, is solidly
built, and has an integral control with thermostat and inputs for A/C and
manual control. It fits with "zero clearance." It required laying the
radiator down by moving the top 3" forward. I repiped with coper pipe (just
the 2 pipes going up to the radiator) and used Gates Green Stripe II with
double clamps. Total cost was about $750 ($425 rad, $240 fan, $50 pipe &
fittings, $35 hose+clamps).

It seems to cool great. In the latest idle tests done tonight, it
appears (using some back of the envelope thermo calcs) that a 90 to 95 deg
ambient temp will result in 185 deg operating temp. If this is so, then a
110 deg day should give a 200 to 205 operating temp. I should mention these
tests were done with water + rust inhibitor. I used a digital thermometer
attached to the radiator exit and a regular on in the expansion tank to
derive these results as discussed  below. Results with the hood up showed
significant additional cooling (10%?)

Installation:
The fan shroud is about 3/4" taller than the radiator. I mounted it to
the radiator using flanges made from 1/8 alu poprivited to the top and
bottom of the radiator. The shroud then fits over these flanges which fill
the gap of the shroud ovrehang. Screws through the shroud attach it to the
flange. The radiator was tilted forward 3" (using two pieces of 1/8" alu to
move the top radiator attach points forward 3")  to allow clearance of the
back of the fan. This raised the back of the shroud just above the bottom
of the hood. A little belt sanding brought it down even. The fan is mounted
on the left side of the radiator leaving a couble of inches space to the
pipes. The original fan thermo switch doesn't work since it is now on the
cooled side of the radiator. I haven't mounted the new thermostat yet (I
had to remove it from the shroud) so I wired in the manual dash switch to
turn it on/off. Power comes directly from the battery through a supplied
circuit breaker.

Testing:
Testing consisted of measuring the air temperature and the difference
between the radiator inlet and outlet temperature. With this, and a few
assumptions, one can predict the operating temperature at other air
temperatures. Anyway, here's what I got. For a 180 deg inlet temp (I have a
180 deg thermostat that appears to be right on) and 70 deg air temp, the
outlet temp (hood down) was 102.5 deg. With the hood up 2", 101, up 4",
99.5, and open full, 96 deg. Under these conditions, the thermostat is in
control which means the water flow rate is varying. This makes it a little
hard (for me at this late hour) to figure things out.

To determine what outlet temperature was required for a given engine temp
when the thermostat is wide open (full water flow rate), I blocked of part
of the air to the radiator with pieces of cardbord. With 12 of 16" of the
fan shrouded area blocked off, the engine reached a steady 185 with a
radiator out temp of 147. Thus the engine at idle causes a 38 deg rise in
the water temp, and a 10 deg increase in the inlet temp would increase the
engine (out) temp by 10 deg. The radiator works in a similar way; for a
constant air and water flow rate and inlet temp, the outlet temp will vary
one for one with the air temp. So, if we knew the air temp for which the
rad out temp is 147, we could figure what engine temps would result at
higher air temps.

Earlier this evening (when I was a little sharper) I figured that, based
on the unblocked radiator area that resulted in the 147/185 engine in/out
at 70 deg air temp, that there was at least double the required cooling
capacity at 70 deg. I calculated that this means that the 147/185 (full
water flow) state would be reached at a 90 to 95 deg air temp. And thus at
110, the engine would idle at 200 to 205.

Bottom line is this system seems to work really well (at least at idle)
and what I need now is some hot weather tests, and tests at speed. The
weather is supposed to warm up next week, so maybe then. But I live at the
beach (Redondo near LAX) and it rarely gets above 80 here. Will have to go
inland.


Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 22:23:05 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  what to look for?
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{I have some further questions:  What are 'cooling updates' and for that 
  matter what does it mean when a cat is listed with 'all updates'? }} 

TC, the Pantera cooling system is usually the first thing to be molested. The
stock radiator in the '71s was not well designed & was changed by the factory
soon after. But you will find a great variety of rads, all of which work but
some better than others. The stock water pump can be replaced with an aluminum
hi-flow unit, the stock rad hoses and Italian clamps were a bad joke and
should be replaced, and the neck of the expansion tank in back is often poorly
sealed with US rad caps, so the easy fix is to have a rad shop cut the stock
neck off & solder a US neck on, then run a 16-21lb cap. There are two short
heater hoses under the dash that connect to the controls. These hoses are a
bitch to reach so are often missed in service, then burst at hi speed, fogging
the windshield & scalding your foot- not what you want @ hi speed. These are
the main 'cooling updates'


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:56:55 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Pantera Cooling Secrets Revealed!
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{...I welded the hole up in the middle (of the bypass plate), in essence, 
  giving me a solid 1 3/4" diameter plate...where the bypass plate was 
  supposed to be....}} 

Many years ago, I found that this practice gives one about a 20 degree drop in
running temp while extending warm-up by 1-2 minutes (northern CA). Also, you
are no longer restricted to "Cleveland" thermostats- as Jim said, ANY Ford
thermostat will do. For the brass bypass plate, a 5/8" freeze plug pounded in
works well, and is removable if you change your mind. J DeRyke


Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:08:46 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  MS bleeds coolant system
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

An unmodified Pantera cooling system (if such a thing exists) holds 24 qts.
Biggest problem guys get into is draining the whole system & refilling only
the radiator & lines while leaving the engine (below the thermostat) empty.
Then when the engine is started & run at idle, most of the air in the engine
water jackets is swept into the radiator where it forms an air-lock (water
bypasses the air-filled area). The cooling system is marginal when everything
is perfect; a large air-lock causes overheating. Compounding this is the stock
mounting of the water temp sender in the remote surge tank. If any air does
make it to the rear tank, it drops the water level below the sender point. No
increasing water temp will show due to the sender reading the air temp above
the low water level. Result is a barbecued engine for the unwary. But this
can't happen to Murphy's Son.... J DeRyke


Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:37:41 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Honest to goodness tech question - Belts versus Gilmore Belt
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{ Has anyone used a shorter water pump? Also in a effort to reduce the bulge 
   on the firewall to fit the passenger seat further to the rear has anyone 
  played with that modification? MD}} 

The street-rod pump made by Snow White is 2-1/2" shorter than stock and seems 
to work for them. But the main bulge in the firewall comes from the 
alternator, not the waterpump. By positioning the alternator back one belt 
width and using the rearmost sheave on the A/C pulley, most of the bulge goes 
away. This is the basis of Marino's flat-firewall modification. It makes use 
of the factory setup for the very late-model Panteras that came with an air 
pump mounted back there. Of course, this loads the A/C-to-crank belt even 
more.... IMHO, there IS no "safe" way of rigging a crank-fire ignition on a 
351C that protects the trigger wires while also running any belts on the crank 
pulley. Cheers- J deRyke 


Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:13:14 +0000
From: "D.and F.Terry" {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Honest to goodness tech question - Belts versus Gilmore Belt drive
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} The street-rod pump made by Snow White is 2-1/2" shorter than stock and 
} seems to work for them. But the main bulge in the firewall comes from the 
} alternator, not the waterpump. 

 The Snow White set-up is just an adapter that is used to mount a Datsun water 
pump to the Cleveland. It is a great idea but when used in a Pantera, the pump 
inlet will cause hose interference with sub framing. I don't think this is 
worth the effort. I spoke with the maker a few years back and he has done his 
homework on pump flows. 

 About the relocated alternator, I had that mounting for the A.I.R. pump on my 
GT5-S and it looks O.K. for an alternator mount. Yes, it will put more load on 
the A/C belt but if a tall cross sectioned vee is used it should take the 
load. Time will tell as some of these modified units will probably be 
installed. 


Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:16:03 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Re: new to the list
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Too-big fan motors are no problem: many Panteras run a 'lay-down' radiator
with sucker-fans and a proper fan shroud. Much easier to work on, more 
efficient and cooler running. The stock upper rad brackets are desoldered, 
swapped side-to-side, then mounted backwards, tilting the rad forward. The 
stock bolts 'n grommets fit. The water pipes must be extended 3" or so to 
clear the rt fan & shroud, and you can then cut away all that mounting h'ware 
that impedes airflow into the radiator. Piece of cake to do if you know how to 
solder. Good luck- J DeRyke 


Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:59:48 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Finally took possesion...
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

The radiator fans are hooked up to run full tome. How do I go about installing
a thermostat and relay to make them go on only when neccessary. }}

The stock radiator has 2 thermostats built into the lower header tank. The
stock thermostats often malfunction, which is probably why the fans are wired
as they are now. The thermostats can be replaced at great cost & effort from
the usual suppliers, IF you still have a stock radiator. Lots of aftermarket
units do not have built-in thermostats. The wiring should all still be there-
the relays are facing the radiator, left side of the front trunk near the
headlight bar . Good luck- J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:45:57 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Finally took possesion...
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{Jack, is this a typo?  I know Larry's got a stack of replacement 
  thermostatic switches, and they're pretty cheep--I'd assume the same is true 
  of the other vendors as well.  Simply drain the radiator, unplug the wires 
  (if they're still connected), unthread the old one, install the new one 
  (might need a new gasket, a VERY cheep part), hook up the wires and yer in 
  business. Wherein lies the great cost and effort?  Or am I missing 
  something?}} 

The OEM thermostats are each held into the header tank by the metric
equivalent of 3ea.  2-56 nuts on tiny welded studs, all of which are severely
rusted and are absurdly easy to break off. Then you have the job of pulling
the radiator and hiking it down to a radiator shop to have a new stud or two
welded/brazed onto the header tank. This BTW happened to me; I wound up
replacing the whole radiator- at great expense. The new aftermarket radiators
have thermostats that thread into the tank directly - a much better idea than
the 3 studs w/nuts and a paper gasket (which also goes south regularly). OEM
design= bad; new design= good. I assumed the car in question had a stock
radiator. J deRyke