Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Seatbelt Plastic Retainer
Sender: [email protected]

}The black plastic pieces that hold the seat belt up from falling into the 
} mono frame.  [snip] 

Any suggestions on where I can pick up these pieces.  It makes using the
seat belts a pain, and they need to be replaced.

}}}Uh, what?  Bruce, I have no idea what pieces you're talking about, you'll 
}}}have to be more specific.  What is a mono frame???? 

Do you mean the retainers which are fastened to the bulkhead and serve to
hold the shoulder harness when not in use? (25027A in the DeTomaso parts
book, 29232 in the Ford book.)  Or are you talking about the cover for the
outboard belts (which hold the inertial reel)?  Or do you mean the inboard
belt (the pushbutton latch, etc.)?  Or do you mean the D-shaped plastic clip
on the shoulder harness, which both mounts it to the back panel when not in
use, and also is used to adjust tension?

Larry Stock of Pantera Parts Connection has a box filled with used seat-belt
hardware.  I know, because I repeatedly shoved it out of my way when I was
storing and working on my Pantera in his shop.  (800) 338-6627.  I don't know
if he has evenly-matched sets or not; if not, he'd probably sell individual
components.  I wouldn't expect him to break up matching sets, though.

I know Steve Mooney ([email protected], on this list) has some mis-matched
seat belt components; he might have what you need.  I also know Wally Baldyga
WILL have what you need, and I think he would break up matching sets, but
you'll have to be much more specific when you ask him for it.  He runs
DeTomaso Performance in Conn., his number was (203) 668-5690 last time I
checked, but I think they might have changed the area code where he lives.
He's sometimes not the greatest at returning phone calls, but Andy DiFatta
(Wise Dog on this list) lives only a few miles away from him and presumably
can run the parts down for you.

Don't forget to specify if you have two-piece or three-piece seat belts.
Based on your serial number, you should have two-piece belts, with only one
inertial reel in the rocker panel, not two reels (the second mounted at the
bottom of the bulkhead on '74 and later cars.)


Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998
From: scott black {[email protected]}
Subject: Drop floor pan and removeable cross member
Sender: [email protected]

Has anyone installed the floor pan dropping kit and the removeable cross 
member under the oil pan?  I'm thinking about both, and wonder what the "kits" 
include. 

Does the cross member include any additional members, or is it simply a bolt-
in replacement for the existing member?  Couldn't you just use the existing 
member with plates to bolt it in? 

Does the kit for the floor drop only the area under the seats?  What about the 
cross member that runs along the front of the floor pan? What about carpet?  
And do they help?  I'm almost 6'1", and I've never even autocrossed the car 
because of the helmet.  I wouldn't mind a little extra headroom w/o the helmet 
also. 


Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Drop floor pan and removeable cross member
Sender: [email protected]

}Has anyone installed the floor pan dropping kit and the removeable cross 
}member under the oil pan?  I'm thinking about both, and wonder what the 
}"kits" include. 

}}}I went a slightly different route, but I have worked with both of these.

}Does the cross member include any additional members, or is it simply a bolt-
}in replacement for the existing member?  Couldn't you just use the existing 
}member with plates to bolt it in? 

}}}You got it.  The aftermarket piece might be marginally stronger than the 
}}}original, but I doubt you could tell the difference.  On many cars, the 
}}}original piece was cut out and then THROWN AWAY by hack mechanics wanting 
}}}easy access to the oil pan.  The aftermarket piece is for them.  If your 
}}}chassis is still intact, I'd cut the crossmember out, grind the chassis 
}}}smooth, weld some end-plates on the crossmember, drill some holes, buy some 
}}}bolts and be done with it.  A bit less elegant, perhaps, but who's gonna 
}}}see it? 

(Of course, I wouldn't go through all this work just for giggles; I'd only do
it if I HAD to pull my oilpan and didn't want to pull the engine.)

}Does the kit for the floor drop only the area under the seats?

}}}Basically, yes.

}What about the cross member that runs along the front of the floor pan? 

}}}That is sacrificed, which is actually sort of scary.  When I bought my car
from Hall Pantera, I also got a pair of his dropped floorpans.  They were
pretty marginally designed; just a simple box, almost like a big cookie
sheet.  Pantera East and Pantera Parts Connection carry a much better design;
it has a slight slope to it, just like the factory floor, plus it has a large
lip all the way around the edge, so you can cut a hole in the the floor, lay
the pan in place, and then weld it in at your leisure.  The Hall pan had no
such lip, requiring you to butt-weld it in place, not a fun or easy job.

The guy restoring my car was very suspicious of the Hall pans because they
required you to remove the side-to-side crossmember, and thus sacrifice some
chassis strength.  This could be a factor in a T-bone accident.  At the time
the other pans weren't available.  I think the Pantera East/Pantera Parts
Connection pan is much stronger (due to the angles involved in its
construction); it's certainly much heavier-gauge steel.  It's possible that
it only requires cutting behind the aforementioned crossmember, too.  You'll
have to ask them.

}What about carpet?

}}}Well, as you might imagine, your stock carpet will no longer fit.  All the 
}}}vendors sell carpet kits for dropped-floor-pan cars, or you could have one 
}}}custom-made by a local upholsterer. 

}And do they help?

}}}Oh, absolutely!  We've got a monster in PCNC, Roger Sharp.  He actually
}}}made his own dropped pans, cutting just behind the crossmember.  With stock 
}}}seats reconditioned with less padding, when I sit in his car, I can barely 
}}}see over the dash! 

}I'm almost 6'1", and I've never even autocrossed the car because of the 
}helmet.  I wouldn't mind a little extra headroom w/o the helmet also. 

}}}I'm just under 6 feet even, and find headroom not a problem in early cars, 
}}}but a problem in later cars (which had thicker seat cushions, and also the 
}}}seat tracks were on raised spacers.) 

First thing I'd do if I was you was to remove your stock seats and make sure
the spacers are gone.  If not, make them so!  Then see how you like it with
the seats back in place.

If you still don't have enough room, then you can investigate the dropped
floorplan idea.

On my car, it was so RUSTY that there was nothing to weld dropped floor pans
TO!  So I had entirely new floors made.  The entire floor, from front to
back, was lowered two inches (actually, the stock floor has a step in it and
the front is actually lower than the back, so my new floor is about 2 inches
lower in back, and less than 1 inch lower in front.)

I dropped my floors because I fitted Recaro seats in my car, which are
several inches taller than stock.  The net result is a seating position about
the same as stock.

The bottom of my floors is smooth, and all the chassis members which appear
on the bottom of a stock floor, have instead been fabricated on the INSIDE of
my floors.  The seats nestle down in between all the chassis reinforcements,
and the bottom is like a 'bellypan' on a land speed racer, much cleaner
aerodynamically.

Actually, in front the floor is a bit TOO low, with my heels on the floor my
toes barely reach the pedals.  That was all part of the plan; though; I'll
build up the area between the inside chassis supports with super-duper
soundproofing, which will raise the overall level, then cover it with carpet.

The guy doing my car had a complete set of floors made, with all the
reinforcement pieces, plus one of the sickle-shaped chassis rails that goes
from the leading edge of the inner rocker, around and underneath the fusebox
to the front of the floor-all that made from scratch for only $400.  This was
a custom metal shop in Vermont did the work.


Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998
From: "Ted A. Mitchell" {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Drop floor pan and removeable cross member
Sender: [email protected]

}Has anyone installed the floor pan dropping kit and the removeable
}cross member under the oil pan?  I'm thinking about both, and wonder
}what the "kits" include.

First, I wouldn't eliminate the cross member under the oil pan.

The good news, is that (assuming you can weld, etc.) you can do both of these 
mods yourself (or your friendly welding buddy). 

For the crossmember, before you cut away the old one, carefully measure the
distance between the frame AT THE ATTACHMENT BOLTS for the front lower "A"
arms.  Take a piece of channel iron, cut off to length, and weld in end
plates with slots in them.  Loosen the nuts holding the lower "A" arms
enough to slide your new crossmember up under the nuts and washer, and
rotate 180 degrees, tighten nuts, and you have a removable crossmember.  You
may have to fabricate brackets for your parking brake if you still have one.
I did this many, many years ago on the Vader Pantera.

I lowered the driver's floor pan on my 72 race Pantera (thanks to a
suggestion by Mike Cook) by cutting the floor pan in a "U" down the side,
across the back, and up the right side just inside the reinforcement.  I
then pushed the rear of the floor pan down about 3 inches and welded in
wedge shaped filler panels on both sides, and a straight piece across the
back.  I don't know if you can bolt stock seats in, but the racing seat
worked great, and I am sure you could figure some adapters for normal seats.
If the inside reinforcement was eliminated (like the kits) you would have
plenty of room, but I am not sure you would want to do this.


Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998
From: Dan Jones {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Drop floor pans
Sender: [email protected]

One of the PCNC guys at the last Vegas meet let me sit in his lowered floor 
pan car.  He cut out only the area inside the reinforcements.  His stock seats 
fit but only barely.  The sides of the dropped area fit flush against the seat 
and there wasn't enough room to allow for fore-and-aft movement but that 
didn't matter to him since he bolt the seat directly to the floor. He was able 
to keep his original carpets too (he pulled them taut and they eventually 
stretched into shape). 


Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Dash Unglued
Sender: [email protected]

}I am going to second Thomas's request for info on hte dash coming unglued in 
}the curves.  Particularly above the flat spot over the glove box.  (Pre-L 
}dash) 

}}}There was an UNDOCUMENTED change in Pre-L dashboard construction partway 
}}}through 1972.  I guess not too long after the cars started ageing, people 
}}}began to realize that the vinyl material lifts away from the dashboard in 
}}}the area immediately around the flat tray above the glovebox. 

The factory fix was two thin channels of black-painted sheetmetal, one which
ran the full width of the tray along the back side, the other only a few
inches long which ran diagonally from the bottom to the top of the
depression, on the left side of the tray opening.  These channels are held in
place with tiny screws.  The general contour is similar to the contour of the
slit defrosters, but they're about 1/4 as large.  My car, July '72 #3960 had
these suckers, while I've seen cars from April that didn't have 'em.  I don't
know exactly when the change was made.

There is NO reference to this change anywhere, and these parts are NOT listed
in any parts book.  However, I suspect they wouldn't be too hard to come by
used.  Many people convert their Pre-L dashboards over to L-model, and I know
Hall Pantera has a stack of early dashboards just sitting in a pile (last
time I was there, anyway.)  I'd call the vendors and ask 'em.

Note:  the vendors might not know what you're talking about; I know Larry
Stock had no idea these existed.  His wife's pre-L had the same
dashboard-lifting problem, and he was amazed when I was able to produce these
two parts from my old dash.


Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: BIG waste of time! (was: FATTY RUNS)
Sender: [email protected]

Might have been a factory-custom. The so-called 'synthetic mouse-skin' velour
was quite popular in Italy in the late '60s. Seemingly there were quite a few
'show cars' fabricated- Byron's '75 Euro came with a factory removable sun-
roof and a plexiglas bubble between the seats, to show off the chromed
waterpump, fittings, carb parts etc. The plastic bubble made driving it
incredibly noisy so it went in the garage, replaced by a stock noise-insulated
steel one. J DeRyke


Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Dash Unglued
Sender: [email protected]

You have to pull the dash. Not a big job- I've done it in 2 hrs (biggest 
problem is making a diagram of the dozen wires hooked up to the emergency 
flasher). 4 bolts hold the fiberglas dash in. Be prepared for some plastic 
spacer blocks to fall out of some areas. Oh, and the front part of the console 
has to at least come loose. Takes 2 days to put everything back... J DeRyke 


Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  Dash Unglued
Sender: [email protected]

Mike's right. TSP bulletin 5, article#31 calls out a factory  'vinyl trim
cover' repair to eliminate separation of the dash pad by using two retaining
strips (3 screws on one, 2 on the other). The 'kit' part number was
D16Y-6304200-A, and is undoubtably obsolete since '74. Find a late car &
duplicate the thing- it doesnt look that complicated (there's one on my #
4366.  J DeRyke


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998
From: David Doddek {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Aftermarket seats
Sender: [email protected]

}In the latest PI I saw a car with Fiero seats, and that seems to be a
}decent alternative too.  Jack DeRyke has a Fiero; Jack, care to comment
}as to their fitment in a Pantera?

I have Fiero seats in my car.  The work quit well and are very comfortable. I 
had to remove the Fiero seat tracks and modify them to lower them to the 
floor. Cut some foam out of the bottom to make the cushon go a little lower, 
and swap passenger and driver seat sides to make the the tilt mechanism clear 
the seat belt.  They sit a very slight amount higher than the stock seats but 
are far easier to ride in over a distance.  Besides, you get speakers if you 
get the 84 seats.  They would be great with dropped floor pans. 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  RE: Sagging Headliner
Sender: [email protected]

Very tricky: you force it! Seriously, just grab the darn thing and rip it off-
the base is heavily spring-loaded and it pops back on. The was a 'safety'
thing, I guess. The base is glued to the glass, I believe so be a litle
careful. A sharp twist is all that's necessary. J DeRyke


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Sagging Headliner
Sender: [email protected]

}Then either get some new material (Actually saw some at a upholstry shop in 
}town once) or glue up the old one. 

}}}Just FYI, a few months ago Marino Perna of Pantera East managed to
find the original OEM manufacturer of the headliner while on a trip to
Italy.  He had them whip out another batch, and now has them in stock.
I bought one from Larry Stock (who stocks them for the west coast) and
it looks great.  Haven't installed it yet of course...:{(

I honestly don't remember what it cost...around $150 maybe?  Probably
more than what an upholstry shop would charge, but then again, an
upholstery basically won't be able to provide stock-styled headliner
material either.

Shari put one in her car; suddenly the rest of the white interior (the
upholstry on the trim pieces around the roof of the car) looked dingy
and yellow.  They had an upholstery shop do some magic (dye?  cleaner?
Can't remember) and they cleaned it all up, now all looks like new.

Finally, remember that a low-pressure zone forms in the interior when
driving at speed with the windows down.  Many a Pantera owner has
learned the hard way when speeding down the highway at 90 mph and
suddenly the headliner is sucked down onto their heads.  It also results
in a cloud of nasty black foam mung which invariably gets in your A/C
vents, and for the next year whenever you turn on the blower fan more
foam comes shooting out your vents!

If you're gonna drive more than 80, roll dem windows up! :})


Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:23:21 +0000
From: David Nunn {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: dropped floor pan(s)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Pantera East has dropped floor pans that are exact replicas of the factory
GT5-S dropped floor pan complete with a replacement frame section to replace
the one that is removed when you cut out the original pan. They even have
carpet kits specifically for use with these dropped pans.


Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:03:17 +0000
From: Ted {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: dropped floor pan(s)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Yes, Mike cuts both sides and the back, bends the floor down, and welds in a
filler panel.  I did this on my 72 race car (still for sale guys and girls).
The only problem I ran into was the inside edge toward the console.  I
didn't want to cut into the "frame", and therefore the pan was somewhat
narrow, but it fit my race seat.  I think back in the archives, someone said
they did this and the stock seat still fit.


Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 21:52:29 +0000
From: [email protected] (George P. Dausch IV)
Subject: Re:  Slim-line Bulkhead
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Pantera Performance sells an engine bulkhead kit to get the passenger
seat back.   Looks like it must relocate the alternator, and then
eliminate that part of the hump.

Unfortunately, it's also $1,200.00.

Anybody have one or know anything about them?
Anybody have a used one to sell?
Can I make one?


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 01:12:21 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  dropped floor pan(s)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Suggestion: if you cut the pan at the sides and back, and simply bend it down, 
you can keep the stock crossmembers in the floor and fill the gaps with  MIG 
welded pieces. The seat of course will be non-adjustable but the stiffness 
will be as good as stock. I wouldn't go down more than 1-1/2" since any more 
means the seat pan is the lowest point of the floor (very bad for the drivers 
butt running over rocks & old tire treads at speed). A Nor-Cal guy did this 
project over a weekend and his car is still working just fine. J DeRyke 


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:18:12 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Slim-line Bulkhead
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Pantera Performance sells an engine bulkhead kit to get the passenger
seat back.   Looks like it must relocate the alternator, and then
eliminate that part of the hump.

Unfortunately, it's also $1,200.00.

Anybody have one or know anything about them?

}}}This looks like a pretty slick application.  The kit includes all
necessary bracketry and belts, plus a new, very small but high-output
Japanese alternator.  They relocate it and drive the alternator off the
second pulley on the A/C condenser.

You could make and upholster a new bulkhead and fabricate the brackets
and find a belt and buy a new alternator and do all that stuff yourself;
you just gotta ask, how long will it take, will you get it right the
FIRST time (which Dennis Quella invariably does), and presuming you
might save some money, then what is your time worth?  If this represents
a 20-hour project and you save $200, then you've 'paid' yourself $10 an
hour in sweat equity.

If it takes you 40 hours, then you're down to $5 an hour.  And finally,
do you have all the necessary tools (to include the ability to weld,
mill, grind and tweak metal, and upholstery skills?)

For some people, this is an enjoyable challenge, and the results can be
very rewarding.  For others, it can be a nightmare.  Take your choice!


Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:19:33 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: dropped floor pans
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Mike Cook does have and can install great dropped floor pans and they
will accomodate stock seats.

In response to the question about a smaller bulkhead for around 1200
dollars there is a better way.  I had mike cook move my passenger seat
back all the way to the firewall!!  How did he do this, you ask?  Easy.
The question is do you want to do it?  My wife is just short of 6', I
did.

What Mike and Captain Billy did was to cut into the rocker panel so the
seat could be repositioned to the right and to the rear.  The seat is
not movable forward or rearward, but who cares, you couldn't move the
damn seat anyway (anyone with a seat that rolls is in my awe).  Anyway
I'm 6'4" and I now can sit in the passenger seat comfortably, really.


Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:16:10 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Re:  Slim-line Bulkhead
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

There was an article on this in a '97 POCA newsletter. Dunno which one. The 
old  bracket mounting the alternator & AC compressor is swapped for a stock 
later-model one. The alternator is mounted on TOP of the AC compressor, driven 
off the compressor's second pully groove. On late models, the air pump for the 
cat converter is up there stock. A new metal firewall cover is included as 
well as a new fiberglass cover. I couldn't do it for that cheap and I can 
fabricate anything! (Well, almost anything...) J DeRyke 


Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 21:48:06 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Re: Supplier Fiero seats cover+...
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{Hello everyone, I have been reading about your desire to replace the seats 
  with Fiero's... For the money definitely the best idea.. I know an 
  individual that knows evrything about those seats and specializes in 
  fabricating custom Fiero seats covers and sell them by mail order... Quality 
  work for reasonnable price... I will let you find out by your self... this 
  is the phoine# 1-800-924-8858...}} 

As my suggestion re Fiero seats seems to have started something, I'll fan the
flames a bit more by mentioning that a Fiero car cover perfectly fits our
Pantera, and Pep Boys discount stores stocks them.... J DeRyke


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 00:39:28 +0000
From: David Doddek {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Fiero seats ?
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

The seat racks had to be extensivly modified to fit the pantera mounting
points but I made them work.  They also have to be swithced from drivers
and passengers sides to let the tilt mechanism to clear the seat belts
retractors.  They slide for and aft and tilt fully.  Great for taking the
engine cover out and storing stuff behind seats.  I belive only few cars
had the speakers.  I know 1984 did.  The speakers have very little base
(none) and loss of lower midrange so you may still need some speakers some
where else.  I am working on using the underside of the passenger dash as a
subwoofer.  I paid $200 for the pair I got and they were in good shape.
They are very comfy and very much reduce fatigue with long driving.  When
installing them you also have to cut away the foam on the bottom of the
seat to allow your butt to sit lower in the car.  You also need to
fabricate thin little pieces of sheet metal to sit between the seat tracks
and the carpet.  The seat tracks are not totally enclosed and will drag on
the carpet and tear it.  I just made small SS pieces to put under the seat
tracks and they worked great.


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:05:18 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Track experience
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Well, maybe this will become the subject of a tech session, as my chassis is 
 not sectioned to drop the oil pan. I take it that a removable chassis piece 
 from Larry 

}}}...or any of the other vendors as well...

}will do the trick here?

}}}Actually,if you make this mod at a PCNC tech day, you can get away
with salvaging your stock piece.

The aftermarket piece is basically a copy of the stock chassis member,
with flanges on each end drilled for holes.  To install, you hack out
your old piece, grind the chassis smooth, slide the new piece in, drill
appropriate holes, and bolt it in.

Since Step One is to hack out your old piece, if you've got some
welding-type guys handy (Jack, Jim, Roger), they can whip out some end
plates and weld them to your stock chassis piece.  Drill a few holes in
the end plates, and similar holes in the chassis, and now your stock
piece is a bolt-in!

It will probably take an hour longer, require a few handshakes on your
part, and save you a hundred bucks.

}Also, will a 10-quart pan hang lower than the stock one? I'm wondering about 
clearance, as the stock pan is less than 1" above the bottom of the nearby 
chassis rails, and I'd really hate to knock the plug out of a shiny new 10-
quart pan on some really bad pavement... 

}}}No sweat.  The 10-quart pan fits neatly between the chassis rails,
hangs no lower than the stock unit.  The deep sump is longer
front-to-back, and the profile is somewhat wider, which accounts for the
additional capacity.

One of the few true bolt-in mods!


Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:20:16 +0000
From: [email protected] (George P. Dausch IV)
Subject: Re: Seat belts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

In the process of lowering my floor pans, I have also narrowed my sills
to widen the pan area.  Works great, looks good; however, this
necessitated the removal of the seat belt retractor unit that used to
nest in the rocker panels.  The seat belts with the separate shoulder
unit was a big pain in the ass to get hooked up anyway.

In conclusion, I need new belts.  Self retracting would be neat, maybe
mounted on the bulkhead.  Looking forward to track time, would these
qualify?  Any suggestions?


Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:15:20 +0000
From: Richard Barkley {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Double-paned rear windo
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}}I insulated the firewall before Vegas. It knocked off about 12dB from the 
}}lower end of the spectrum, about 6dB from the higher end. I used a dB meter 
}}for overall level, and a portable DAT for capturing the sound, which I then 
}}analyzed for spectrum to see the improvement. (Hey, I do audio for a living, 
}}so I'm a _professional_ audio weenie...) It helped most at cruise -kills a 
}}lot of the pounding - but didn't do a huge amount for the blower noise. 

}Ever consider running a rear window of high-tech plastic as opposed to
}glass? 

Three things stop sound: Reflection (Mass and rigidity), absorption, and 
vacuum. Lead foil makes an excellent sound-proofer and it combines mass with a 
high amount of damping. Tom, if you could shroud your compressor in lead 
foil, you might stop it at the source - but it would be UGLY! Plastic, being 
much less dense than glass will not have the same mass for a given thickness. 
It is also less rigid. But is probably more absorptive. So it might work as 
well as glass, but would probably have to be thicker. The best solution would 
be to pull a vacuum between the panes. However, the forces would be 
substantial. The rear window is about 4 sq. ft. which would give about 9,000 
lbs of force with a perfect vacuum. I'm not sure how well the glass would 
withstand this. Spacers could be used to distribute the load, but then they 
would act as sound conductors between the panes. A partial vacuum might be a 
better option. 

Also, the window and firewall are only the first line of defense. The sound 
will come in through the floor, roof, doors (and window gaps), and especially 
the rocker panels (they extend into the engine compartment and just pipe the 
sound into the passenger compartment with only the carpet to stop it). I'm 
surprised that the firewall insulation reduced the low frequencies more than 
the high as it is usually easier to stop high frequencies. 


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 02:01:14 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: Fun with seats
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Keep in mind that with ALL these floor-lowering systems, if you drop over 2",
the result positions some rather important personal body-parts 1.0 seat-
cushion-plus 16-gauge-steel-thickness above the lowest part of the chassis.
You'll have to get used to driving around all road-debris rather than
straddling it.... J DeRyke


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:41:47 +0000
From: "John R. Haas" {[email protected]}
Subject: more leg room-update
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Well, I thought I finished the job of moving the foot pedals forward last 
night when lo and behold the hood wouldn't close because it hit the master 
cylinder resevoir cover. As Homer Simpson would say,....... Doah!. 

I must say though that this was one of the easy hassles of this job
and there is plenty of room to chop the humps off of the resevoir
lid. This is the PPC aluminum master cylinder.

I took a lot of pictures and will send them to Jack in case he wants to use 
them but again it was a pain.  It would be simple enough to put a kit together 
and maybe one of the vendors will. I think a lot of people could use them 
because even though it took so much more work than I thought the results are 
definitly worth it. A huge difference at 1.25 inches. I read the post from a 
guy would mentioned 3 or 4 inches? and have no idea how you would do that 
without cutting out the floor board. A kit could make this truly bolt on.  
Kirby will get to try it out soon and can offer an unbiased opinion later if 
he wants to. I'll still try to get my steering wheel spacer made to complete 
my custom fit driving position:). 


Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:45:37 +0000
From: Dennis Antenucci {[email protected]}
Subject: Modifying Bulkhead for aftermarket passenger seats
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I got some pictures from George Frescura who showed me how he modified
his bulkhead on the passenger side to gain a couple inches of rearward
installation on the aftermarket passenger seat in his P.

What is nice about this modification is it's a no-brainer and can easily be 
reversed later and all you need is a HAMMER. :-] What George did was pound in 
the center bulkhead where the seat actually touches the bulkhead. Anyone who 
has aftermarket seats and is interested in this mod let me know and I'll 
forward the pictures on to you or you can contact George . 

Anyone from POCA or PI interested in doing a story on this??
Anyway, very nice work George! Anyone who can use a hammer will love
this mod! :-]