dave williams
hotrod list  09-23-92
- The oil pan isn't usually your sludge buildup point.  The valve covers
  seem to be worst, probably because they don't have the crank constantly
  stirring things up.  You haven't lived until you pull a Chevy valve
  cover and see eight rockers in little troughs in a semi-gelid mass of
  spooge.  

[email protected] (Dave Williams) 
rec.autos.tech  10 Oct 94
- -> I found it interesting that some of the synthetic brands weren't
  -> EC-II at 10W-40 and above!
- These API ratings cost a considerable amount of money - quite a few
  man-hours and a lot of equipment that can't be re-used, such as the
  brand-new engines that must be used for the dyno tests.  Most oil
  manufacturers only recertify when they do a major formulation change,
  or when marketing pressures force them to get the new rating. For
  example, most premium oils already met the SH standard when it came
  out, but it took time to recertify, change packaging, and get the new
  bottles in inventory.
- I'm not convinced the "Energy Conserving" ratings are meaningful in any
  useful sense.  The oil companies are generally selling the best
  compounded oils they can, given the price range they're selling to.  You
  don't get something for nothing, so if there's any difference between an
  EC oil and a regular oil besides the certification, you're probably
  losing lubricating ability, sludge resistance, corrosion inhibitors, or
  something else to make room for the different additive package.

dave williams
rec.autos.tech  11-05-94
- -> Hmm, I could be wrong.. but I think Marvels mystery oil is different
  -> that the other two.
- It is, despite the idiotic name.  Marvel Mystery Oil is nothing more
  than a high grade, thin (about 5wt) straight-cut oil.  It's a good
  multipurpose utility oil, though I don't have much use for it in
  engines.  Harley-Davidson recommends mixing 50wt and MMO 2:1 for easy
  starting in cold weather; it is often used in general aviation, and it
  is used in air tools when repackaged as "Marvel Air Tool Oil."  Some
  engine builders also use MMO as a honing and assembly oil.

[email protected] (Dave Williams)
Ford  10 Nov 1996
- -> complain "this oil is blacker than my usual Valvoline, or QS, or
  -> whatever" His response was "Thankyou"  "That just means that our oil
  -> is doing a better job at taking all of the dirty crap out of the
  -> motor.  Is this true? 
- Straight distillate is transparent enough to see through.  The color in the 
  oil comes from the additive package.  Different package formulations color 
  the oil differently, but the major coloration comes when the additive 
  packages start working, absorbing water, acids formed from the interaction 
  of water and oil, and that sort of thing.  "Black" does not equal "dirty." 
- You get a tiny amount of carbon in the oil due to combustion byproducts 
  going past the rings.  >90% of the oil's contaminants is plain old water, 
  which is serious bad news when combined with oil, where it helps form acids 
  which eat, among other things, the metals used in the bearings.  Once the 
  oil's water absorption capacity is reached the water beads up inside, where 
  it corrodes internal components.  Urban myth says long trips will boil the 
  water out of the oil.  Over 212F sump temps would tend to do so - but only 
  for water not yet absorbed into the additive package.  I've sat in Jay's car 
  with Diacom on the laptop, bumper to bumper in traffic and never seen the 
  oil temp come over 210 -and ambient temp was 105F! 
- Unless you're running severe crankcase temps (280+) the petroleum distillate 
  part of your motor oil is likely to still be in decent shape. However, once 
  the additive package is full, it's all downhill from there.  Which is why 
  extended change intervals still aren't a good idea for synthetics. 
- Synthetic oils are pretty good stuff.  They're just expensive.  You *can* 
  match the performance of a synthetic with a good enough dino oil, but you 
  are very limited to the base stocks you can use, and dino oils of that 
  quality can (and do) cost a lot more than synthetics.  Such oils are 
  generally specialty lubricants, like mechanical watch movements. Not even 
  the military could afford them in bulk, which is why we have synthetic oils. 
- Oil and additive makers like to talk about engine wear.  There are ASTM 
  standards for measuring engine wear - the standard engine was (or used to 
  be) a 350 Olds V8.  It's nice to have a standard, but having pulled down 
  *lots* of dead motors, I can tell you wear is a very idiosyncratic thing.  
  You have four major wear points of concern in an average engine - cylinder 
  wall wear, cam/lifter wear, valve stem/guide wear, and timing chain link 
  wear.  The valve stems and guides appear to wear directly proportional to 
  mileage, regardless of brand, oil type, whether the guides are cast iron or 
  bronze, or whether the stems are chromed or plain.  Cylinder wall wear 
  appears to be most closely tied to the brand of the motor, probably actually 
  the alloy used in the block.  Small block Chevys are terrible.  Ford and 
  Olds motors show very little. The timing chain links are small, highly 
  loaded, and probably of valid concern as a wear point.  Cams and lifters 
  will fail whenever they damned well please, period, which is why almost 
  everyone uses rollers now, even on OHC engines. 

[email protected] (Dave Williams)
gnttype  04 Dec 1996
- -> oil in a Buick TR application, and that the only thing that is
  -> "racing" about "racing" oil, is the name.
- Actually it's a little better than that, though it can be difficult to be 
  sure of what you're buying due to all the marketing flash. 
- Most oils are dino oils, refined from crude by cracking, distilling, and 
  other processes.  Not so long ago - WWII era - many oils were "straight cut" 
  distilled, and other than that were pretty much as they came out of the 
  ground.  Ever seen motor oil in glass bottles? 
- A premium straight cut oil could be *very* good, surprisingly. Duckham's in 
  England still makes some for automotive use, but most straight cut stuff is 
  now for specialty applications like machine tools, watches, etc.  The major 
  reason is there isn't enough of it to go around.  The oil companies crack 
  heavier stuff - all the way down to asphalt - to get more of the type of oil 
  you want for your engine. Oil is "oily" due to the long chain molecules in 
  the base stock.  The cracked base stocks have shorter chains than the 
  straight cuts, so they don't lubricate quite as well even when of the same 
  viscosity.  So the oil companies blend in "additive packs", a witches' brew 
  of lubrication enhancers, anti-foam agents, high pressure additives, 
  viscosity improvers, etc.  A modern SH motor oil can be over 40% additives 
  by volume. 
- These additives work, no question about it.  However, they're designed to 
  work at ordinary auto temperatures and pressures.  Motor oils manage to 
  combine the worst parts of organic and inorganic chemistry into one 1-quart 
  package.  Some of the contents of the additive packages don't like elevated 
  temperatures, so others must be substituted.  Racing oils don't need much in 
  the way of corrosion inhibitors or water absorbents, so they're reduced or 
  deleted.  High pressure additives like zinc dithiophosphate work like 
  gangbusters for lifters and valvetrain, but catalytic convertors hate them.  
  (ZDP is the major ingredient in GM's Engine Oil Supplement)  Racing oils 
  tend to have lots of ZDP or similar stuff. 
- In the '80s "turbo" oils came out.  "Turbo" oils use straight and lightly 
  cracked base stocks which don't need so much in the way of VI improvers. 
  which gives you a better oil that doesn't need so much in the way of 
  additives, which makes blending a high temp oil simpler. 
- Nowadays you don't see too much in the way of "turbo" oils, as improvements 
  in the additive packages has made it possible for standard oils to approach 
  the performance of the specialty blends, which cost more due to the more 
  expensive base stocks. 
- The synthetics are built up from smaller molecules.  Mobil uses natural gas 
  as the base stock for Mobil 1.  The synthetics typically do not have the 
  lubricity of dino oils.  You sometimes hear about racing engine builders who 
  have had trouble with synthetics.  It's true they're not always the best 
  solution, but you have to be pretty far out there to exceed their limits.  
  The advantage of the synthetics is their resistance to breakdown by heat and 
  mechanical shear.  The lubricity difference is made up for by tailoring 
  their additive pack - and they usually don't need as much, or as complex an 
  additive pack as an ordinary dino oil. 
- You've probably heard oil filter or snake oil vendors claiming "your motor 
  oil doesn't wear out!"  It does.  Heat and mechanical shear (the breaking of 
  the long molecule chains by the internal friction of the oil as it does its 
  job) reduce the number of long chains in the oil.  This typically causes the 
  oil to thicken or sludge up while actually *reducing* its lubricity.  The 
  viscosity and lubricity of oil aren't really related to each other, though 
  they're sometimes presented that way. 

[email protected] (Dave Williams)
fordnatics  26 May 1999
- -> I was wondering if anyone knew of any reasons not to run 15w40
  -> diesel oil in a gas engine.
- In old times the major difference between gas and Diesel oils was the gas 
  oils' additive packages were tuned to deal with lead compounds from leaded 
  gas.  When lead was phased out the additive packages were retuned, this time 
  to remove phosphorus compounds and reduce or eliminate extreme wear 
  compounds like zinc dithiophosphate, which would contaminate catalytic 
  convertors or cause trouble with O2 sensors. 
- If your vehicle doesn't have a catalyst, the Diesel oil is damned good 
  stuff; run it and be happy.  If you have a catalyst-equipped car, you might 
  try the technical support people at the company that makes your Diesel oil.  
  They will know if the additive package might cause trouble. 

[email protected] (Dave Williams)
fordnatics  26 May 1999
- -> leaded gas.  When lead was phased out the additive packages were
  -> retuned, this time to remove phosphorus compounds and reduce or
- What I meant there was that the *gasoline* additive packages were retuned; 
  the way I wrote it inferred the oil additive packages were being referred 
  to.  Sorry. 

[email protected] (Dave Williams)
fangle  26 Nov 2000
- -> "Non-Detergent" motor oil for the first 500 miles.
  -> Are these oils still readily available from chain parts stores?
- They're available here.  Usually only in 30wt, which is okay.  Lots of 
  lawnmower and other small engine makers still call for ND oil. 
- -> I assume there will be more wear associated with a non-detergent oil,
  -> therefore it is good for break-in purposes.
- Lubricity and wear are no different.  If anything, a properly formulated 
  (note qualification there) could be better than a detergent oil.  Oils 
  oxidize and do other nasty things over time; detergents help keep the gunk 
  from sticking to the inside of the engine and let it drain out when you 
  change the oil.  A 500 mile break-in isn't going to leave any gunk in the 
  motor for the oil to dispose of. 
- Note most ring manufacturers call for plain old dino oil for break-in, and 
  specifically recommend against synthetics during that time. 
- I use whatever's on sale for the first fill - 20 minutes at 2000 RPM to 
  break in the cam, drain, change the filter, retorque the heads and intake, 
  and you're ready to rumble.